on duty
off duty
SEARCH
Contact Us
Advertise / Sponsor
  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
2005 Threads
 Police Forum : Administration : 2005 Threads
Message Icon Topic: Firerams question Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 8 Next >>
Poll Question: Should police officers be routinely armed
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
35 [43.21%]
39 [48.15%]
0 [0.00%]
7 [8.64%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author Message
oldbillplod
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 08 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3897
Quote oldbillplod Replybullet Topic: Firerams question
    Posted: 30 October 2005 at 10:55am
By police officers, I include PCSO's, Specials and retired officers.
By public, I include civilian members of staff and everyone else I haven't thought of.
A snout has told me he's got a set of nostrils, so go and get a W so we can spin his drum to see if he's got any monkey gear - The Sweeney.
IP IP Logged
Stan Still
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Crown Skivvie

Joined: 04 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5872
Quote Stan Still Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 11:24am
I've voted no - only because I wouldn't trust some of the officers I know with a water pistol!

The training implications are immense! Initial training then constant refresher courses. Plus having the IPCC round your neck if you were ever to use the bloody thing.

Having said all that, I suspect that the number of armed officers will dramatically increase in the next few years, but I'm not sure that every one of us will get a shooter!
The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.

You're Nicked!
IP IP Logged
mintcake
Muppet
Muppet


Joined: 29 October 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13
Quote mintcake Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 12:35pm

I am a firearms officer. We place the responsibility of a firearm into the hands of 17, 18 and 19 year olds, give them very little police training and put them on the streets of Britian. Yes, we already do it. Its called Northern Ireland and the soldiers are answerable to the judiciary as Lee Clegg found out to his cost.

What is the difference in standards from the average british bobby to the average squadie to the average Swedish, Dutch, German, Danish etc etc police officer? Certainly in one of those countries, the training is more extensive. I believe in certain areas of the UK, there is a now definate need for universal arming, getting this idea of "tradition" out of the way for the necessary requirements for police to police effectively.

IP IP Logged
Søren
Old Sweat
Old Sweat
Avatar

Joined: 22 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 245
Quote Søren Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 1:11pm

 

I've been an AFO now for 8 years.

I've voted no.  Like fivejays, I'd hate to see some of my colleages armed.

I'd hate to see the stakes raised which will happen.

I also believe the number of police officers and MOP killed will rise dramatically.

I don't think tradition has anything to do with the argument, it depends on how our country via our elected peers want the public face of policing to be.

If we acquire more paramilitaria, we lose the ability to police at the lower level, which the public, me included, consider to be very important.

I believe that particular local inner city issues have to be resolved at local levels, but nationally, we must remain unarmed if we want to try to keep any kind of lid on the criminal use of firearms.


Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.
IP IP Logged
oldbillplod
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 08 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3897
Quote oldbillplod Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 2:01pm
It can only be a matter of time, ask any Met officer, they have bought enough Glocks for everyone of them and given the nod from the government will be churning out 2 day basic handgun courses and giving their people guns for protection only.
A snout has told me he's got a set of nostrils, so go and get a W so we can spin his drum to see if he's got any monkey gear - The Sweeney.
IP IP Logged
gb8143
Old Sweat
Old Sweat
Avatar

Joined: 29 September 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 295
Quote gb8143 Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 3:35pm

I've voted no. As a bobby i dread the day (if or when it comes) when a Glock is standard issue. I certainly would not say no to a Taser however.

If they give guns to us all, there will certainly be far more bobbies and MOP killed. have a look at http://www.odmp.org/

The number of Cops Killed by an accident with their own weapon is shocking.

If it all goes pear shaped, at least Ive got my wheels
IP IP Logged
JENKINS3563
Garage Sergeant
Garage Sergeant
Avatar

Joined: 22 August 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1997
Quote JENKINS3563 Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 3:45pm
i agree with the last comments - tasars or other non lethal means would be welcomed by most officers i would have thought but blanketly enabling all officers to carry guns would not be the way to go - i agree that there are some officers i know who i most definatley would not like to see with a gun
looking for inspiration
IP IP Logged
Penbwlch
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 August 2005
Online Status: Online
Posts: 57352
Quote Penbwlch Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 4:51pm

I have voted no. Not everyone has the same skills. I admire the professionalism of our armed officers and I believe this would be diluted if everyone was given a gun.

I always preferred the option of having high quality armed officers to assist when necessary rather than having a gun myself.

I used to be conceited. Now I'm Perfect
IP IP Logged
bluearsedfly
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Forum Philanderer

Joined: 15 August 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3589
Quote bluearsedfly Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 5:00pm

Hmmm

I can see both arguments, but I had to wait 6 minutes before a trojan unit turned up to deal with a potential firearms call, in which time the suspect had walked straight towards us and i had to use my gift of the gab in order that we were able to get the drop on him and cuff him... firearm was found in nearby garden... i discovered adrenaline is coloured brown on that day

Don't Walk, FLY!


IP IP Logged
Stan Still
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Crown Skivvie

Joined: 04 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5872
Quote Stan Still Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 5:22pm
Six minutes for an armed response is pretty good going. Given the size of our force, I don't think we have enough ARVs on routine patrol. For obvious reasons I'm not going to go into details, but there is definitely a shortage.

Some forces operate a system where an ARV responds, then tools up locally based AFOs if necessary. I think this could be a solution, as there is no doubt that we need a more resilient armed response option. I wouldn't want to see all of us carrying a gun though.
The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.

You're Nicked!
IP IP Logged
Penbwlch
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 August 2005
Online Status: Online
Posts: 57352
Quote Penbwlch Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 5:42pm

I agree with fivejays. The answer is to improve the response time of ARVs rather than to arm everyone.

I used to be conceited. Now I'm Perfect
IP IP Logged
Special Girl
Class I (Fighter Command)
Class I (Fighter Command)
Avatar

Joined: 04 October 2005
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 696
Quote Special Girl Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 7:08pm
I have voted no too. I really respect armed officers for what they do but I would not want to find myself in the same situation as them. Plus the cost of training all officers would be quite immense.
IP IP Logged
Barry87
Old Sweat
Old Sweat
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 225
Quote Barry87 Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 7:08pm
I wouldn't like to be the person that has to decide wether or not to pull the trigger.
IP IP Logged
Special Girl
Class I (Fighter Command)
Class I (Fighter Command)
Avatar

Joined: 04 October 2005
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 696
Quote Special Girl Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 7:13pm
Nor would I Barry.....just look what happens when you do!
IP IP Logged
NorthernMonkey
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 23 August 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 182
Quote NorthernMonkey Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 8:27pm
Wouldn't bother me. My lot are anyway.
Livres en anglais à Québec     English bookstore Quebec
IP IP Logged
cage
Canteen Cowboy
Canteen Cowboy
Avatar

Joined: 20 October 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 115
Quote cage Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 9:04pm

I voted no.

If the Police are armed then that gives the Criminal more reason to be too.

I havent experienced our Armed officers yet but I am sure they all do a great job.

IP IP Logged
Stan Still
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Crown Skivvie

Joined: 04 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5872
Quote Stan Still Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2005 at 9:41pm
Cage

Word of advice for when you do meet them.

Don't stand between them and the suspect.
The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.

You're Nicked!
IP IP Logged
psni20126
Van Driver
Van Driver
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
Quote psni20126 Replybullet Posted: 31 October 2005 at 3:08am

As an officer who is constantly armed with a Glock 17 I would say the following;

1. Being armed does not stop people attacking you!

2. Being armed does not stop Police doing their job!

3. You can have a normal conversation with people even though you are carrying a deadly WEAPON!

4. People are enquisitive as regards the firearm you are carrying!

5. You wil name your firearm!!!!!! Matilda - helps when talking to your partner in front of the kids!

6. Carrying a firearm does not men you are special!

7. The split second decision will be the hardest to make in your life

It is only part of the job, and will become insignificant, however there are people out to hurt Police and they don't worry about the cost 

Proper planning prevents p**s poor preformance
IP IP Logged
Barry87
Old Sweat
Old Sweat
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 225
Quote Barry87 Replybullet Posted: 31 October 2005 at 3:21am
Originally posted by psni20126

4. People are enquisitive as regards the firearm you are carrying! 

That's true, anytime I am talking to a police officer here someone always brings up the gun.

IP IP Logged
certacito
Canteen Cowboy
Canteen Cowboy


Joined: 28 October 2005
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 105
Quote certacito Replybullet Posted: 31 October 2005 at 11:44am

As a MOP I´ve voted no. The reason for this is a personal belief and experiences made living in Germany.

My personal belief is that any Police Officer who is nervous about carrying a sidearm or who catagorically does not want to use a sidearm is a possible liability to themselves, their colleagues and the general public. This is NOT meant in a negative or derogatory sense at all, but rather refers to the split second decision on whether to squeeze the trigger or not. It is an awesome decision and carries an awsome amount of responsibility that should not be forced on Police Officers. If a Police Officer decides that he/she is able to make that kind of decision and live with the consequences afterwards then by all means volunteer to become an AFO/SFO.

My experience living in Germany, is that even though ALL Police Officers are armed, the first call that goes out whenever firearms are in use, or there is a danger of firearms being present, is to the german equivalent of the ARV´s / SFO´s. The system is good and each Police Force in Germany has a large number of ARV´s strategically placed throughout their Tactical Area of Responsibility and at least one SFO Team on permanent standby. Deployment to remote areas is also made easier due to the use of chopper support. If a further level of support is needed, they can also fall back on the GSG9 which is a paramilitary unit of the Federal Police, trained to the same standard as the SAS.

This system does work (bearing in mind that no system is perfect) and instead of arming all British Police Officers I think that the budget on all Forces should be increased to raise the number of ARV´s and SFO´s on a nationwide basis thus reducing response times, increasing the coverage and reassuring the copper on the beat, that armed backup is available.

On a closing note, I would like to thank ALL members of the Police for their professionalism and dedication to duty in such adverse conditions. IT IS APPRECIATED.

IP IP Logged
Page  of 8 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.219 seconds.