| Author |
Message |
Stan Still
Moderator Group
Crown Skivvie
Joined: 04 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5521
|
   Topic: Man shot by Taser injures self and dies
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:21am |
Much too early to speculate on how he died, but I have no doubt that there will be calls for Taser to be banned! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7198742.stm
|
|
The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.
|
 IP Logged |
|
M&MBM
Moderator Group
Sheep Rescue Award
Joined: 22 November 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 57744
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:25am |
|
Well, I hope they follow up with a report when it's decided exactly why this man died.
|
MOP, Joker & reformed character. Honest.  I moderate with purple prose
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Stan Still
Moderator Group
Crown Skivvie
Joined: 04 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5521
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:27am |
|
The story has been updated since I first saw it.
The man was Tasered outside his house after making threats with a knife. He then went back inside (how?) where he was found with "injuries".
|
|
The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
M&MBM
Moderator Group
Sheep Rescue Award
Joined: 22 November 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 57744
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:31am |
|
Exactly, Stan. The headline implies it was the taser wot dun it, yet if you read the whole thing, it's obvious that he had another injury which may well be the cause of death. But what will people remember?
|
MOP, Joker & reformed character. Honest. I moderate with purple prose
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Maverick22
Moderator Group
Brian Winner 2008
Joined: 30 July 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 26305
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:40am |
|
The Officers obviously felt threatened or they would not have used the Taser. Difficult to have much sympathy for the man if he had a knife, all he had to do was put it down and the matter would probably have ended there and then. Lets hope he died of something not related to the Taser.
|
|
The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make sure the other bastard dies for his. The secret to longevity is not dying.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Stan Still
Moderator Group
Crown Skivvie
Joined: 04 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5521
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:41am |
|
I've complained to the BBC about the sensationalism of the headline and asked them to change it.
|
|
The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Wee Man
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 18 November 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 977
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:42am |
That fact that the chap died is tragic (as much for the bobbies at scene as anything) but let's not forget:
1. rightly or wrongly, if he hadn't been waving a knife at Police and complied with their instructions he wouldn't have been tasered
2. had the bobbies not had taser (i'm assuming that, like my Force, only the ARV's have taser) then he'd have been just as dead having been shot with a Glock or Sig'
3. i gurantee none of the bobbies there wanted the guy to die but we have the right to defend ourselves and the public from people otherwise so violent as to pose a grave danger to others
Even if the taser did cause or contribute to the guys death, the only reason any Police officers in the UK have taser is because it's too bloody dangerous for us not to.
This will seem calous, I know, but I'm glad the ARV's were there to protect their colleagues (and the guy's mother) because otherwise we could have been looking at more Police deaths. And I doubt that would have even raised an eyebrow at the offices of Amnesty or Liberty?
|
|
Peace And Love
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Wee Man
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 18 November 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 977
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:43am |
Oh, P.S., he may have died after banging his swede on the table after going back into the house...
I'm not trained on taser so I don't know it's full capabilities or limitations but if it's anything like the other kit we get to defend ourselves it's probably not 100% guranteed to work every time...
|
|
Peace And Love
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Morek54
Garage Sergeant
Brian Winner 2008
Joined: 19 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1647
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:49am |
Hear, hear Stan - no one knows why he died yet, as others have said it may well be as a result of the other injuries he apparently had.
It shouldn't be forgotten that it wasn't that long ago that an Officer was stabbed to death in Bedfordshire - and had that Officers had Taser as an option, he may well still be alive today!
|
|
New Labour: Soft on Crime, Tough on the Fighters of Crime
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Stan Still
Moderator Group
Crown Skivvie
Joined: 04 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5521
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:33pm |
|
They've changed the headline and made it a bit more balanced now!
It pays to complain.
It appears that the man inflicted an injury upon himself AFTER the Taser had been used.
Draw your own conclusion from that.
Edited by Stan Still - 20 January 2008 at 12:35pm
|
|
The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Morek54
Garage Sergeant
Brian Winner 2008
Joined: 19 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1647
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:35pm |
|
Nice one!!!
|
|
New Labour: Soft on Crime, Tough on the Fighters of Crime
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Penbwlch
Moderator Group
Joined: 12 August 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 54567
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:35pm |
Well done Stan. 
|
I used to be conceited. Now I'm Perfect
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Stan Still
Moderator Group
Crown Skivvie
Joined: 04 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5521
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:57pm |
|
I've changed my own headline as well!
|
|
The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Shootist
Barrack Room Lawyer
Brian Winner 2008
Joined: 23 July 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2955
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 1:22pm |
Originally posted by Wee ManThat fact that the chap died is tragic (as much for the bobbies at scene as anything) but let's not forget:
1. rightly or wrongly, if he hadn't been waving a knife at Police and complied with their instructions he wouldn't have been tasered
2. had the bobbies not had taser (i'm assuming that, like my Force, only the ARV's have taser) then he'd have been just as dead having been shot with a Glock or Sig'
3. i gurantee none of the bobbies there wanted the guy to die but we have the right to defend ourselves and the public from people otherwise so violent as to pose a grave danger to others
Even if the taser did cause or contribute to the guys death, the only reason any Police officers in the UK have taser is because it's too bloody dangerous for us not to.
This will seem calous, I know, but I'm glad the ARV's were there to protect their colleagues (and the guy's mother) because otherwise we could have been looking at more Police deaths. And I doubt that would have even raised an eyebrow at the offices of Amnesty or Liberty?
I have no problems with any of that.
And they said it couldn't be done. 
|
|
This animal is dangerous. If attacked, it will defend itself.
-----
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Wee Man
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 18 November 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 977
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 2:46pm |
Cheers Shoot', it was only a matter of time. 
Nice one Stan', three cheers 
And the same to the bobbies who, after being threatened by this chap with a knife, still had the professionalism to enter the house and attend to him in the right way. |
|
Peace And Love
|
|
IP Logged |
|
M&MBM
Moderator Group
Sheep Rescue Award
Joined: 22 November 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 57744
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 2:47pm |
|
Interesting that they now have a description of how a taser works and how some say it's harmful at the bottom of the report, though. Well done Stan.
|
MOP, Joker & reformed character. Honest. I moderate with purple prose
|
|
IP Logged |
|
creasy
Old Sweat
Joined: 01 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 212
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 5:32pm |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/7198712.stm"police are appealing for witnesses"....funny how when it goes right, no one, and i mean no one sees a damned thing.......
|
|
18 stones of justice......!
With respect, sir, you can't just make people disappear.
Yes I can, I'm the Chief Inspector.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Shootist
Barrack Room Lawyer
Brian Winner 2008
Joined: 23 July 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2955
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 5:45pm |
Originally posted by M&MBM
Interesting that they now have a description of how a taser works and how some say it's harmful at the bottom of the report, though. Well done Stan.
This is not a criticism of your post, just an observation.
There is, as far as I am aware from many years study, no possible means of defence against an aggressor that does not involve a risk of doing that aggressor some degree of harm.
In days gone by, officers were trained to try and break the collar bone, so that should the offender escape, a trawl of the hospitals may find him.
The collar bone is the easiest bone in the human body to break. What was not so commonly known was that a the jagged edge of a broken collar bone could cut the subclavian artery. If that happens, then, in the words of Capt. W.E. Fairbairn, no first aid, nor the help of any man, will save him.
What you need is a proportionate scale of response. Not a list to be tried in sequance, but a list from which an appropriate response can be selected.
The TASER is a damned fine piece of kit, capable of meeting serious aggression with a, relatively, very safe response. If there is a problem with it, it will be that officers come to rely on it, and their other skills (should they actually possess any) may atrophy through lack of use. This has happeneed in Kansas City, where the use of the Lateral Vascular Neck Restraint has been such a success that officers rarely, if ever, use any other method of restraint.
As a matter of interest, the LVNR is effectively a proscribed technique over here, yet is has a superb record of prisoner safety in Kansas City.
|
|
This animal is dangerous. If attacked, it will defend itself.
-----
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell
|
|
IP Logged |
|
M&MBM
Moderator Group
Sheep Rescue Award
Joined: 22 November 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 57744
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 6:08pm |
|
That's an interesting post, Shootist, but quite what it has to do with my post, I can't quite grasp.
|
MOP, Joker & reformed character. Honest. I moderate with purple prose
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Shootist
Barrack Room Lawyer
Brian Winner 2008
Joined: 23 July 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2955
|
Posted: 20 January 2008 at 6:15pm |
Originally posted by M&MBM
Interesting that they now have a description of how a taser works and how some say it's harmful at the bottom of the report, though. Well done Stan.
That bit.
|
|
This animal is dangerous. If attacked, it will defend itself.
-----
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell
|
|
IP Logged |
|
Active Topics
Memberlist
Calendar
Search
Help
Register
Login
