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Stan Still
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Quote Stan Still Replybullet Topic: Man shot by Taser injures self and dies
    Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:21am
Much too early to speculate on how he died, but I have no doubt that there will be calls for Taser to be banned!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7198742.stm
The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.
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M&MBM
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Quote M&MBM Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:25am
Well, I hope they follow up with a report when it's decided exactly why this man died.
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Stan Still
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Quote Stan Still Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:27am
The story has been updated since I first saw it.

The man was Tasered outside his house after making threats with a knife. He then went back inside (how?) where he was found with "injuries".
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M&MBM
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Quote M&MBM Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:31am
Exactly, Stan. The headline implies it was the taser wot dun it, yet if you read the whole thing, it's obvious that he had another injury which may well be the cause of death. But what will people remember?
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Maverick22
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Quote Maverick22 Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:40am
The Officers obviously felt threatened or they would not have used the Taser. Difficult to have much sympathy for the man if he had a knife, all he had to do was put it down and the matter would probably have ended there and then.   Lets hope he died of something not related to the Taser.
The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make sure the other bastard dies for his. The secret to longevity is not dying.
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Stan Still
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Quote Stan Still Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:41am
I've complained to the BBC about the sensationalism of the headline and asked them to change it.
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Wee Man
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Quote Wee Man Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:42am
That fact that the chap died is tragic (as much for the bobbies at scene as anything) but let's not forget:

1. rightly or wrongly, if he hadn't been waving a knife at Police and complied with their instructions he wouldn't have been tasered
2. had the bobbies not had taser (i'm assuming that, like my Force, only the ARV's have taser) then he'd have been just as dead having been shot with a Glock or Sig'
3. i gurantee none of the bobbies there wanted the guy to die but we have the right to defend ourselves and the public from people otherwise so violent as to pose a grave danger to others
 
Even if the taser did cause or contribute to the guys death, the only reason any Police officers in the UK have taser is because it's too bloody dangerous for us not to.
 
This will seem calous, I know, but I'm glad the ARV's were there to protect their colleagues (and the guy's mother) because otherwise we could have been looking at more Police deaths. And I doubt that would have even raised an eyebrow at the offices of Amnesty or Liberty?
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Quote Wee Man Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:43am
Oh, P.S., he may have died after banging his swede on the table after going back into the house...

I'm not trained on taser so I don't know it's full capabilities or limitations but if it's anything like the other kit we get to defend ourselves it's probably not 100% guranteed to work every time...
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Quote Morek54 Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:49am
Hear, hear Stan - no one knows why he died yet, as others have said it may well be as a result of the other injuries he apparently had. 
 
It shouldn't be forgotten that it wasn't that long ago that an Officer was stabbed to death in Bedfordshire - and had that Officers had Taser as an option, he may well still be alive today!
 
 
 
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Stan Still
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Quote Stan Still Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:33pm
They've changed the headline and made it a bit more balanced now!

It pays to complain.

It appears that the man inflicted an injury upon himself AFTER the Taser had been used.

Draw your own conclusion from that.


Edited by Stan Still - 20 January 2008 at 12:35pm
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Quote Morek54 Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:35pm
Nice one!!!
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Quote Penbwlch Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:35pm
Well done Stan. Clap



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Stan Still
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Quote Stan Still Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:57pm
I've changed my own headline as well!
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Shootist
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Quote Shootist Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by Wee Man

That fact that the chap died is tragic (as much for the bobbies at scene as anything) but let's not forget:

1. rightly or wrongly, if he hadn't been waving a knife at Police and complied with their instructions he wouldn't have been tasered
2. had the bobbies not had taser (i'm assuming that, like my Force, only the ARV's have taser) then he'd have been just as dead having been shot with a Glock or Sig'
3. i gurantee none of the bobbies there wanted the guy to die but we have the right to defend ourselves and the public from people otherwise so violent as to pose a grave danger to others
 
Even if the taser did cause or contribute to the guys death, the only reason any Police officers in the UK have taser is because it's too bloody dangerous for us not to.
 
This will seem calous, I know, but I'm glad the ARV's were there to protect their colleagues (and the guy's mother) because otherwise we could have been looking at more Police deaths. And I doubt that would have even raised an eyebrow at the offices of Amnesty or Liberty?
 
I have no problems with any of that.
 
And they said it couldn't be done.Wink
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Wee Man
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Quote Wee Man Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 2:46pm
Cheers Shoot', it was only a matter of time. Big%20smile
 
Nice one Stan', three cheers Clap
 
And the same to the bobbies who, after being threatened by this chap with a knife, still had the professionalism to enter the house and attend to him in the right way. Clap
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M&MBM
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Quote M&MBM Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 2:47pm
Interesting that they now have a description of how a taser works and how some say it's harmful at the bottom of the report, though. Well done Stan.
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creasy
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Quote creasy Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 5:32pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/7198712.stm

"police are appealing for witnesses"....funny how when it goes right, no one, and i mean no one sees a damned thing.......
18 stones of justice......!
With respect, sir, you can't just make people disappear.
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Shootist
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Quote Shootist Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by M&MBM

Interesting that they now have a description of how a taser works and how some say it's harmful at the bottom of the report, though. Well done Stan.
 
This is not a criticism of your post, just an observation.
 
There is, as far as I am aware from many years study, no possible means of defence against an aggressor that does not involve a risk of doing that aggressor some degree of harm.
 
In days gone by, officers were trained to try and break the collar bone, so that should the offender escape, a trawl of the hospitals may find him.
 
The collar bone is the easiest bone in the human body to break. What was not so commonly known was that a the jagged edge of a broken collar bone could cut the subclavian artery. If that happens, then, in the words of Capt. W.E. Fairbairn, no first aid, nor the help of any man, will save him.
 
What you need is a proportionate scale of response. Not a list to be tried in sequance, but a list from which an appropriate response can be selected.
 
The TASER is a damned fine piece of kit, capable of meeting serious aggression with a, relatively, very safe response. If there is a problem with it, it will be that officers come to rely on it, and their other skills (should they actually possess any) may atrophy through lack of use. This has happeneed in Kansas City, where the use of the Lateral Vascular Neck Restraint has been such a success that officers rarely, if ever, use any other method of restraint.
 
As a matter of interest, the LVNR is effectively a proscribed technique over here, yet is has a superb record of prisoner safety in Kansas City.
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Quote M&MBM Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 6:08pm
That's an interesting post, Shootist, but quite what it has to do with my post, I can't quite grasp.
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Shootist
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Quote Shootist Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2008 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by M&MBM

Interesting that they now have a description of how a taser works and how some say it's harmful at the bottom of the report, though. Well done Stan.
 
That bit.
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