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exmetskipper
Barrack Room Lawyer
Joined: 20 February 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5037
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Posted: 24 July 2007 at 10:22pm |
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very valid point Oldcodger ....comes back to the arguement of "Is policing a profession" or is it Blue collar work ? ( no pun intended there BTW ! )
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"Anarchism is a game at which the Police can beat you."
George Bernard Shaw
"Slytherin" subversive
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Old Codger
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 09 August 2006
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Posts: 871
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Posted: 24 July 2007 at 10:51pm |
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Although a lot of the activity is mundane and physical (tending towards blue collar) the required attitude and ethics are professional (tending strongly towards professional). In my view policing is a profession, not a job.
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Old Codger
Been there, seen it, done it.
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Backlash
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 20 October 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1176
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Posted: 24 July 2007 at 11:16pm |
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Regulation enforced by statute distinguishes a profession from other occupations represented by trade groups who aspire to professional status for their members. But whether you choose to look at Policing as a profession or an occupation is not the point of this thread. However, it may make an interesting title for debate in another . Whichever way you look at it, I still work 24 hours a year for no compensation...
Edited by Backlash - 24 July 2007 at 11:17pm
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exmetskipper
Barrack Room Lawyer
Joined: 20 February 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5037
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Posted: 24 July 2007 at 11:49pm |
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good point backlash ..thread started !!!!
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"Anarchism is a game at which the Police can beat you."
George Bernard Shaw
"Slytherin" subversive
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LEGEND
Class I (Fighter Command)
Joined: 04 May 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 458
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Posted: 25 July 2007 at 8:58am |
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I remember quite clearly on the old forum site that the half hour was fully explained and we are already paid for it whether you do it or not. I will try to see if I can get a copy of the 'deal'.
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Maverick22
Moderator Group
Brian Winner 2008
Joined: 30 July 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28723
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Posted: 25 July 2007 at 10:19am |
I hope this pay episode 'comes to a head' this year, and that the Federation go for the government in the best way they can. Police Officers are grossly underpaid in relation to other professions. In my opinion if the police were to get a 50% pay rise, that would be a fair wage, but only those who do the donkey work, i.e Inspectors and below.
What really annoys me is the fact that for twenty five years I had to parade for duty 15 minutes early for briefing, for which we were never paid, thats 2.3 days per year in real terms, working for nothing.
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Light travels faster than sound, thats why some people appear bright, until they open their mouths. A Chicken crossing the road, poultry in motion. .
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Backlash
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 20 October 2006
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Posts: 1176
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Posted: 25 July 2007 at 10:23am |
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Puts it into perspective for me when I see my 19 year old niece earning nearly as much as me in a local factory. She has been offered a 6% pay rise this year. I went wrong somewhere...
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tony_w
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 24 November 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1947
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Posted: 25 July 2007 at 10:57am |
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This is just history repeating itself....... until it becomes the Government of the day to rustle up another Royal Commission on Police Pay due to the shortage of Officers (Which can probably now bypassed by using PCSO's).
By the way, talking of working for nothing..... It used to be that you had to parade 15 minutes before your duty time, and if you were not there, you were late for parade and sent home and told to report for the next shift! No you were not paid for that 15 minutes either. Likewise booking off usually meant another 5 to 10 minutes were added to your time! Five minutes for two tea breaks, and a very strict 45 minutes for your main meal. (In the Met one used to sign in, in the presence of the Sgt, in Book 91 (I think it was - 90 was the Stops Recording Book?). You also attended District Training School whilst you were a Probationer two or three evenings a week (three hours in duration) in your own time!
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mattthecat
Billy Basic
Joined: 24 March 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 76
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Posted: 25 July 2007 at 11:22am |
I realise that our pay isnt that bad but the way I look at it is this - I cant afford to buy a house in a run down area of the town I live in. I cant afford to move into an ex council 2 up 2 down with neighbours who get it for free and call us out every night. Can that really be fair?
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tee5
Class I (Fighter Command)
Joined: 27 October 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 738
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Posted: 25 July 2007 at 12:30pm |
Originally posted by Backlash[
And the first half hour of any unplanned overtime for the first 4 occasions in any given month, which I personally do every month, meaning I work 24 hours for free every year !! What other profession allows that....
i think you'll find its the first 4 periods of O/T in a week, not a month
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tony_w
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 24 November 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1947
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Posted: 25 July 2007 at 12:47pm |
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mattthecat - I sympathize with your plight! However, many Young People, and not just Young People, find themselves in a similar position - The answer is not in a pay increase but rather to build more affordable houses in the area where they are needed. At the present the laws of supply and demand rule - there is more demand that there are houses available and those who have those houses can demand an unjust price for them. My Son-in-Law also has a similar problem, and he is a qualified Analytical Chemist earning good money for the area he works in!
Just a passing point of interest - in days past one had to apply to buy a house, and permission would not be granted unless you had more than 15 years service in, and even then you had to live where you were told!
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Backlash
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 20 October 2006
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Posts: 1176
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Posted: 25 July 2007 at 1:24pm |
Originally posted by tee5
Originally posted by Backlash[
And the first half hour of any unplanned overtime for the first 4 occasions in any given month, which I personally do every month, meaning I work 24 hours for free every year !! What other profession allows that....
i think you'll find its the first 4 periods of O/T in a week, not a month
You are indeed correct Tee....that is what I get for posting whilst i sip my wine 
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Infilo
Class I (Fighter Command)
Joined: 19 November 2005
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Posts: 403
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Posted: 25 July 2007 at 4:17pm |
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Don't forget that there are many of us who are due to retire in the next 12 months. This pay rise in September is very important to us as it will effect our pension for the rest of our lives. The Government know there are a lot of us due to go - they are not stupid.
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Founder member of the bewildered. Gone - (and probably forgotten).
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Brutus
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1925
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Posted: 25 July 2007 at 4:43pm |
there are many of us who are due to retire in the next 12 monthsThere certainly are! Last actual working day 30th April. Counting the days!  I was asked if I wanted to "stay on" on the 30+ scheme or would I consider returning to do my present job in a civilian post. I smiled, thanked them, and told them I would rather slit my wrists. My pension is obviously very important to me but I have another job to go to, commencing August next year. It is in a distant land and has nothing remotely to do with their police or criminal justice system. I sincerely hope thereafter never to have to set foot in a police station again. I reckon that if the Fed really push the case, they'll get the same as this year, and I'd bet content with that. Brutus
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OldTimer
Old Sweat
Joined: 08 March 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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Posts: 272
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Posted: 26 July 2007 at 9:51am |
whatever happened to pedal cycle allowance!
It's the same old story, they are trying to reduce the cost of policing, particularly as the pension costs soar, I am glad I am not joining now, there are officers who can only afford to buy a house on the rough estates, amongst the very criminals they are arresting. Does anyone care? Only their colleagues. 16 months and counting
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Dinasour or Master of Time?
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Maverick22
Moderator Group
Brian Winner 2008
Joined: 30 July 2005
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Posts: 28723
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Posted: 26 July 2007 at 10:43am |
Originally posted by OldTimerwhatever happened to pedal cycle allowance!
It's the same old story, they are trying to reduce the cost of policing, particularly as the pension costs soar, I am glad I am not joining now, there are officers who can only afford to buy a house on the rough estates, amongst the very criminals they are arresting. Does anyone care? Only their colleagues. 16 months and counting The Pedal Cycle allowance went out with the Torch Allowance, 4p(in old money) a month, the Typewriter allowance, the boot allowance, I think that was 2/-d(two shillings a month), and the 12s 6d a month plain clothes allowance. Plus the loss of 1 days Annual leave in 1966. We used to work one day a month on a rest day, called an ARD, and get paid for it at time and a half, then the government gave us a £6 a month pay rise, and what happened, the force stopped paying the ARD so we got no rise at all.
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Light travels faster than sound, thats why some people appear bright, until they open their mouths. A Chicken crossing the road, poultry in motion. .
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Trojan202
Wooden Top
Joined: 15 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 26
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Posted: 26 July 2007 at 12:13pm |
So let me see if I've got all the losses we've suffered to our pay and allowances over the years right; and we've always rolled over, like good little puppy dogs!
1. Free dry cleaning vouchers for uniform. 2. Boot allowance. 3. Housing allowance, no increase since about 1985, still about £400/month (what can you get for that? Nothing!). None for new joiners and the price of an average house in London has just topped £300,000! 4. London weighting, a fraction of what the private sector gets. 5. Stocking allowance, for female Officers (space left for sexist comments ) 6. Virtually all Police housing stock sold off.
7. No section houses.
8. Free Medical
9. Free Dental
10. Free glasses
11. Pedal cycle allowance
12. Torch allowance
13. ARDs
14. Plain cloths allowance
15. Instructors allowance
16. Pager allowance
17. Fingerprinting dead bodies allowance
18. First 0.5 hours of unplanned overtime of 4 within a week
Have I missed any out? I do wonder, have our elected representatives had all their allowances cut in the same period? I think not.
I don't think that it really matters as to whether we're perceived as Professionals or not. The official side (read treasury) is taking the ****! Would ANY union put up with this??????
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Stand still! Armed Police! Oh, you are.....
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Maverick22
Moderator Group
Brian Winner 2008
Joined: 30 July 2005
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Posted: 26 July 2007 at 5:00pm |
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The biggest kick in the teeth was under Maggie Thatcher, when Poll Tax came in, those who had lived in FREE police houses were told to pay the tax. Thanks Maggie.
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Light travels faster than sound, thats why some people appear bright, until they open their mouths. A Chicken crossing the road, poultry in motion. .
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tony_w
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 24 November 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1947
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Posted: 26 July 2007 at 8:52pm |
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OldTimer - It used to be that in some Forces that Police Houses were sited in or near the rough areas and in Council Estates or near them! The theory appeared to be that the area would be quieter!!!! Some,however, we sited in the best spots!
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Old Codger
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 09 August 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 871
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Posted: 26 July 2007 at 9:23pm |
Originally posted by Trojan202I do wonder, have our elected representatives had all their allowances cut in the same period? I think not. Correct, their allowances have not been cut. In fact they have recently allocated themselves a new allowance - to produce their own web sites. I could be wildly out but something at tnhe back of my mind thinks it is £10,000 per year.
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Old Codger
Been there, seen it, done it.
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