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Morek54
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Quote Morek54 Replybullet Topic: 3%? We’ll be lucky...
    Posted: 21 July 2006 at 5:00pm

Police Pay Claim Progress

Fighting talk from the federation - but they've allowed the erosion of Police Officers pay and conditions for some considerable time now, so such a declaration is perhaps a mute point.  It certainly is debatable whether current pay does in fact remotely reflects the dangers, responsibility, accountability and restrictions to the personal lives of Police Officers in the first place - but above and beyond all else, I think this demonstrates just how undervalued we have now become. 



Edited by Police Oracle
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Stan Still
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Quote Stan Still Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2006 at 5:14pm
I seem to recall that the Fed did some work a few years ago that demonstrated that to adequately reward us for the increased risk and responsibilities, the pay rise would have to be in the region of 25%.

I've long wondered why it takes a board of people so long to give us the same rise every year. I thought it was a joke and this proves it.

Perhaps we should all get jobs as train drivers? They only have to threaten to withdraw labour and get exactly what they want. Or alternatively, we should stand for parliament? Politicians always seem to get their pay rise through with no trouble at all. (Two faced, hypocritical, self-serving, money-grabbing wasters springs to mind for some reason )
The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.

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oldbillplod
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Quote oldbillplod Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2006 at 7:04pm
I wonder how much the PCSO's will get
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tony_w
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Quote tony_w Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2006 at 8:01pm
Fivejays look back at history and at all the Royal Commisions etc on pay since the War (2) - You are about due another!.....that is if the Police Force/Service still exists!  Good Luck
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Stan Still
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Quote Stan Still Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2006 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by oldbillplod

I wonder how much the PCSO's will get


And what can they do that we can't do when they don't get as much as they would like?
The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.

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Duffers Drift
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Quote Duffers Drift Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2006 at 4:58am
Come on over to the Colonies. Some Toronto police constables, including no doubt a spot of the old overtime, made over $100K last year (50K in Sterling.) A policeman's lot over here is quite a lot.
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Quote tony_w Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2006 at 10:56am
Hm!  just seen the Kent Police Advert for PCSO's - up to £22,384 p.a.; Child Care Vouchers, and, to cap it, a vandal free playground!  It would appear that these PCSO's can put their Kids in care whilst they play on the Vandal free playground!!!  Is this time for a a change - get up to £22,384 for doing sod all!

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carrotchomper
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Quote carrotchomper Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2006 at 2:57pm

I have to say, this job is all peaks and troughs but I am seriously considering leaving at the moment. The past week has been almost entirely donkey work and chasing ridiculous complaints by members of the public with no real criminal substance.

I have repeatedly found myself doing tasks and work that is in no way police orientated, and makes one feel like a trained monkey rather than proud of our role.

I am a History graduate from a good Unversity and at the moment feel completely undervalued and craving some work of substance to use my skills properly and investigate REAL crime- What I joined for.

To cap it all, I am absolutely appalled the Government has dishonoured the annual pay rise. Even a 3% it is barely keeping pace with inflation anyway. This is such a kick in the teeth.

How can the police service expect to recruit and retain people of any calibre when they treat their employees with such contempt? Discretion has all but been done away with and we are not trusted to use our judgement in almost any situation. Our pay for the responsibility and role we have is insufficient.

No, I think I've finally seen the light- A year or two to do a law conversion course and I could be working on the other side of the Criminal Justice system, earning my true potential and actually feeling as if I'm allowed to use my talents.

Apologies for the rant but I am SO hacked off with working life in general at the moment...

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Quote Truncheon Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2006 at 3:02pm

Anyone read the historic report into the police on Socialist Party's website? Obvious left wing slant but quite interesting none-the-less.

Strike action by the police was headed off with an immediate 10 per cent rise and the promise of an inquiry into their pay. When the Tory government returned in 1979, Whitelaw announced the big increases recommended by the inquiry with a big fanfare, clearly attempting to buy the police's loyalty for future confrontation with the labour movement.

The police, like the armed forces, are composed of men and women drawn overwhelmingly from the working class, and they have their interests and demands as workers. The police pay disputes of 1970, 1975 and 1976-77 aroused growing demands for genuine trade union organisation and action. The demand for the right to strike was intensely debated. A majority of constables in a number of areas indicated in referenda that they wanted strike action. The inspectors were against striking, but the sergeants wavered in between. At the Police Federation conference in Scarborough in May 1977 an overwhelming majority voted for strike action. Federation leaders undoubtedly feared that some constables would take wild-cat action if the leadership failed to move.

So if the government doesn't keep it's promises as far as pay is concerned, do the police have the right to strike.......?

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Truncheon
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Quote Truncheon Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2006 at 3:19pm

Perhaps consideration for a little police 'industrial action' aussie style.

Police officers are implementing work bans which include no unpaid overtime, no more single officer patrols and a more visible presence at speed camera sites.

The campaign is expected to slow down response times for minor offences by up to 20 minutes.  

Seems funny that this pay wrangling is happening at a time when the policing 'family' is more fragmented than I can ever remember, Fed, CPA, GPA, BPA, BAWP the list goes on and on..... We need a united front on this.



Edited by Truncheon
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Penbwlch
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Quote Penbwlch Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2006 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by carrotchomper

I have to say, this job is all peaks and troughs but I am seriously considering leaving at the moment. The past week has been almost entirely donkey work and chasing ridiculous complaints by members of the public with no real criminal substance.



Have you considered channelling you justifiable anger into either promotion or specialisation? Both can improve your working life.


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tony_w
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Quote tony_w Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2006 at 4:06pm

Carrotchomper - Looking at the way that the Job is going, and is likely to go - I would say go for it!  Good Luck!

Truncheon - The first time Officers strike will be the last time that you will get a wide public support! You have but one option, use the Electorate to your advantage.  Say what you want and why - justify it with figures and action.   Attend all the calls that you are sent to.....not as has been evident recently!  The Public will not pay for a Police Service that they do not get - who evers fault that is!

There is nothing to stop you demonstrating!  Both the Fire Service and Ambulance Service have had strikes, and whilst they may have got what they wanted in the short term - in the long term they lost!  Don't forget that there have been about three or more Royal Commissions on pay and conditions. 



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Truncheon
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Quote Truncheon Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2006 at 5:24pm

The thing that peeves me with this is that we all create a stink, we even once went up to Wembley and had a shin dig - Jolly nice it was too.....! But it happens to us time and time again.

I was doing a few searches to back up my posts with news items..... What did I find? Loads of reports quoting dear old Fred Broughton back in 2002, the last time something like this happened.

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xyz123
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Quote xyz123 Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2006 at 5:37pm

I work an average of 40 hours per month O/T and have 20 years in with rent allowance ssp etc I should earn 40K this year. I think thats fairly good money if I am crafty with my leave I can have 4 fortnites off per year plus I retire at the age of 51.

Not bad for a job I can do stood on my head I came off CID because of the days off we work 6 on 4 off CID do 5 on 2 off.

I do get some enqs and crimes but spend most of my time showing the younger ones what to do, driving the van( no one else has a D1 never mind a van permit) or unofficially acting up.

I know pay and conditions have gone down the tubes for new recruits but being selfish I wouldn't entertain industrial action of any sort.

 

 

 

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carrotchomper
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Quote carrotchomper Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2006 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by Penbwlch



Have you considered channelling you justifiable anger into either promotion or specialisation? Both can improve your working life.


Funny you should say that Pen, I'm even more twitchy at the moment because I have recently gone for a specialist post, which I am more than qualified for, and was passed over for some others who I personally know couldn't investigate their way out of a paper bag because my application wasn't "right".

I am also actively chasing promotion, trying to get as much acting in as I can, but that's also a source of stress because the team are less than happy with the young lad being in charge, and make it felt. Don't get me wrong, I haven't been throwing my weight around but I still would expect a little respect!

But hey, I've been in long enough to know this job's all peaks and troughs. On balance, next week should be a peak!!

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CptDoby
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Quote CptDoby Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2006 at 4:25pm

If I look around me at my 'civi' friends they have crap jobs, crap prospects with crap pay and to top it all will have to work beyong 65 how things are going.

I personally would never strike, I didn't join this job for the pay, sad as that may sound and accept that everyday I'll be sorting out somebody else's problems. That's what I'm paid to do, I'm not paid just to investigate the 'interesting stuff'.

Sorry, if it bothers you that much go find another job...there's plently waiting to take your place.

It's all worth it just for one little thank you occasionally, and that's from Jo Public, I couldn't care less what any of the rulers of this land say, or don't say for that matter.

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Brian
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Quote Brian Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2006 at 5:40pm
Hmmm....

I'm more or less with Doby and 123 on this. Certainly over the past 5 years or so we've been paid a decent wage and it reflects the job we do.
BUT:-

 What does concern me is that the government seem to be doing their utmost to erode our benefits. Where this may not directly affect me too much it really, really annoys me. I hate bullies.

 As has been mentioned there are many people out there waiting to take my position and if as I suspect the government has had a look at the US they will probably see that they can get away with paying us a lot less. The current starting salary for a New York cop is £13,600, and they don't live at their academy. There are thousands of people applying for these jobs.

 There are plenty of people that I work with who do the job for the money. If the pay is going to start getting less attractive then there will be a lot more people leaving for pastures new. They'll be replaced to whatever level the government allows, but we'll again be perpetually working with inexperienced officers who will go on to get some experience and then a good number of them will leave. This isn't any good for anyone.

 I get the impression that this current situation is a 'test' to see what we will do about it. The Federation have started well, by immediately going to arbitration. I have no idea if it will be in any way binding nor how long it will take. If it doesn't work I won't be one of the officers wishing we had the right to strike as I wouldn't do it.

 There is an alternative though, and one which the Federation themselves has mooted in the past, it's best summed up as "One officer, One job". Nothing illegal about it, nothing for the C&D departments to be interested in either. Emergency calls get covered so it's not putting anyone in the public at any greater risk and it has been done at at least one borough in the recent past that I'm aware of (there was a local 'dispute').

 If the Federation were to call for this then I'd be right with them. I don't actually think that the goverment have any idea what would happen if something like this were to happen. They're far too arrogant to even try and understand.

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Quote Penbwlch Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2006 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by carrotchomper

Funny you should say that Pen, I'm even more twitchy at the moment because I have recently gone for a specialist post, which I am more than qualified for, and was passed over for some others who I personally know couldn't investigate their way out of a paper bag because my application wasn't "right".



Don't expect such selections to be fair. They will tell you they are but a lot of specialised jobs go to the person who is already known. Have a look at the person who was selected and try to gain the advantage that he/she had. Then apply for a similar job.

As an example: I wished to apply for a specialist job and twice failed. Each time I was told that it was a close run thing and they could find nothing wrong with me. The person selected was from within the particular department each time. I decided that, as the system seemed to be to select known candidates only, I had to find a job where someone knew me first. I looked through the telephone directory until I found a very senior officer who knew me and gave him a call. He told me which post to apply for and the rest was a doddle. I got the job.

Your task now is to find out why this other person was selected.


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carrotchomper
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Quote carrotchomper Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2006 at 7:01pm

Originally posted by Penbwlch



Your task now is to find out why this other person was selected.


Sorted, I'm meeting the Inspector tomorrow. If that fails, I know a CI who is VERY keen on my work and can no doubt pull the appropriate strings! 

On the subject of pay, I never entered this job for the pay and think that we are fairly well looked after, particularly with pension and overtime.

But I do think a "Work to rule" would show the Government exactly what we REALLY do. I'm happy to give a lot for a job that I, on the whole, love, but is it too much to expect a cost of living increase at least?

One of the trade unions recently had a "work your proper hours" day to highlight the amount of unpaid overtime the British workforce do. I don't know what came of it though.

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Quote Penbwlch Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2006 at 7:05pm
Originally posted by carrotchomper

Originally posted by Penbwlch



Your task now is to find out why this other person was selected.


Sorted, I'm meeting the Inspector tomorrow. If that fails, I know a CI who is VERY keen on my work and can no doubt pull the appropriate strings! 



Good luck


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