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Message Icon Topic: Police Reform - The Real Cost Post Reply Post New Topic
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Police Oracle
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Quote Police Oracle Replybullet Topic: Police Reform - The Real Cost
    Posted: 18 May 2006 at 3:25pm
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tony_w
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Quote tony_w Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2006 at 4:02pm

Having read this article very quickly - Is someone out to get the prize for the best bit of fiction prize?  With concepts such as this, it is little wonder that the Offices of Law and Order are breaking down!

The talk about the costs of keeping a PC versus a PCSO will cease if more onerous duties are given to them to cover.  I can see demands for substantial wage increases followed by strike action by the PCSOs if the wages are not approved for PCSOs. Quite frankly who could blame them for doing so, if they are expected to do a PC's job at a reduced wage? 

We have, of course, a problem when a PSU needs to be put together quickly, or there is a major incident (such as the London Bombings) - where will all those Officers come from?  Does this mean that when such event happens those in the areas outside the event will be told - Sorry we are closed whilst we deal with this matter in another Force area?

Does this also mean that the Service, as far as PC's are concerned, will revert to "fire brigade" policing?  With the closure of ranks above that of Inspector due to direct recruitment to that rank, how will they recruit suitable Officers for the ranks of Sergent and Constable?  Would People apply for the post of Constable where there is very limited potential for advancement?

All this is suggested by ACPO - Little wonder that the Police have had major problems in the Service!  It is the top that needs reforming, not the base!

It also shows that ACPO have very little respect or concern for their Officers, Does it not?

Yes they are my own humble views and you are entitle to have other views!!!!!!!

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Penbwlch
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Quote Penbwlch Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2006 at 4:35pm

Other views? Not me. I agree with every word.

One problem is trying to get through to the public that PCSOs are not police officers. They just don't seem to understand just what PCSOs are and what their powers (or, rather, lack of them) involve.

I am sure that PCSOs are very good at what they do but they are not police officers and I can see the public being fooled into thinking that PCSOs are simple replacements for PCs. The deception needs to stop now.


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spitfire
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Quote spitfire Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2006 at 2:30am

ACPO - Arrogant, Corrupt & Politically Opinionated.

That is a far better description that Association of Chief Police Officers.

After the suggestions made, they really have no right to call themselves Police Officers. But as I would think the vast majority of Constables and Sgt's are fully aware they are no longer attuned to everyday policing, but more attuned to what honour can I get and what rank can I reach before I retire on a big fat pension. They have no care or concerns for the hardworking and dedicated constable, whose aim is solely to serve the public in the best way they can, with no support at all from senior officers. (there are a few exceptions, but very few). They remain puppets of the government, (whichever party is in power) and the - Advocates of Politically Correct Opinions.

As they sharpen their knives in their comfortable Ivory towers, you as the constables of the country make sure you wear your stab vests and their knives are heading for your backs.

One day nearer retirement.
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Quote Duffers Drift Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2006 at 4:26am
Pray what happened to all the so called 'Leaders of Men?'  There were usually quite a few in my day who were ready and willing to be at the 'sharp end.'  I grieve for the serving police officers out amongst it today. That old saying was correct after all namely, ' a good soldier never looks behind-A good policeman does.'
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croberon
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Quote croberon Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2006 at 1:51pm
Here are two pieces from today's online Daily Telegraph: (the italics are mine)

Restructuring our police forces is the road to ruin
(Filed: 19/05/2006)
Merging England's 43 county police forces into 17 sub-regional ones was the pet project of Charles Clarke, the now ex-Home Secretary. Since his departure, it seems no one wants to do it. Both the Prime Minister and Mr Clarke's successor, John Reid, have implied that they will look at the plan afresh.

It is fortunate that the Government is thinking again, for evidence has now emerged that finally condemns the project. The idea behind the mergers was to enhance the "protective services" that combat serious crime crossing county boundaries.

But according to a confidential report drawn up by Tim Brain, chief constable of Gloucestershire, the Government is aiming at a lower standard of co-ordination. As he crisply puts it, the project "will not do what it says on the tin. If restructuring does not significantly improve protective services, the question must be asked: 'Why are we restructuring?' "

Mr Brain's report also suggests that to implement the plan would cost the equivalent of 25,000 police officer salaries. As the Government is refusing to commit additional funds to pay for the mergers, the effect would be a serious depletion of front-line policing.
And it is front-line policing, not "protective services", which fights the crime that most concerns most people: low-level disorder. The report concludes that "the impact of such a cut would destroy any realistic hope of developing neighbourhood policing".
It is streets and neighbourhoods, not regions, which need police attention. Crime is, in economic jargon, a "demand-pull" more than a "supply-push" phenomenon: it thrives where there is an appetite and opportunity for it, in degraded communities and unpoliced streets. Major crime is the natural product of minor crime, and the big-time villains live by virtue of the petty criminals who plague towns and cities.

This bottom-up analysis has been sadly lacking in the Government's thinking. Ministers are driven by administrative tidymindedness, imagining that the response to any problem is fewer, larger, more centralised services.

In fact, the response to crime, as to most problems, is a greater number of smaller and localised agencies, capable of responding to need where it occurs. And most important of all, services must be accountable, directly and democratically, to the people they serve.

All these principles are violated by Mr Clarke's proposal. Now that it appears the mergers will be either unaffordable or ruinous of front-line services, the Government must heed the will of local people and the advice of officers, and dismiss the plan with the ex-minister who framed it.

Concern over 'police on the cheap'
By John Steele, Crime Correspondent
(Filed: 19/05/2006)
The Police Federation's suspicion that 25,000 officers could be replaced by community support officers has focused attention on CSOs, a New Labour creation from the Blunkett-era Home Office.

They are described by their supporters, who include Tony Blair and Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, as civilians who are employed by forces, in addition to regular officers, to be a visible uniform presence and assist with community-based policing of anti-social behaviour.

Their critics, including the Police Federation, fear they are "police on the cheap".
There are currently around 6,200 CSOs in England and Wales, though the Government hopes to increase this to 16,000 by next year and 24,000 by 2008. There are 141,000 regular officers.

CSOs are different from Special Constables, who number around 12,000 and who give up some of their spare time to work voluntarily alongside regular officers. Specials are not paid but, on duty, enjoy virtually all the powers of a regular officer.

CSOs, by contrast, are paid - typically between £16,000 and £17,000 in most forces, rising to up to £22,000 in London and the South East -for 37 hours work a week.
The powers they can be given are drawn from a range of statutes and laid out in guidance by the Home Office.
However, chief constables have ultimate discretion on their use and CSOs must work only under the direction of full officers.

They deal with public safety, truants, graffiti, abandoned vehicles, litter, missing persons inquiries, confiscating alcohol being consumed in a public place, helping to support victims and crowd control at big events.

They have the power to detain someone until a constable arrives, to direct traffic and remove vehicles and to issue fixed penalty notices for anti-social behaviour.

But they do not have powers of arrest, do not deal with suspects in custody and do not carry out detective work.

Spiders are the most successful terrestrial predators on earth.
One minute your crawling along; next minute splat!

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CNAP
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Quote CNAP Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2006 at 2:27pm
This seems like yet another article / publication which will be ignored by the government in their struggle to control everything...and they called a certain Iraqi leader a dictator!  opps!
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