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30down92go
Barrack Room Lawyer
Joined: 09 November 2006
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   Posted: 28 July 2010 at 10:23am |
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999 On the surface not a bad idea BUT!!!! What you are in fact suggesting is a reward system, okay on the surface but there will ALWAYS be that one officer who needs extra cash who may do something above and beyond stupid in an attempt to earn that extra money. In other words it can become a reward for stupidity, enticing that officer to possibly put his and other peoples lives in extra danger.
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I may be an ex copper, but I'm still a serving cynic
Nostalgia is not what it used to be
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Backlash
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 20 October 2006
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Posted: 28 July 2010 at 10:34am |
Originally posted by 999tommo
why don't they put the money in a pot and pay out singular payments to any officer in any role, who actually 'does do' something which merits it. Kind of like a well done bonus, or acknowledgement of dealing with a particular difficult or stressful task.
Police Regulations 2003, Annex U (Paragraph 8, Bonus Payments) provides for a separate scheme for bonus payments of between £50 and £500 per head to recognise occasional work of an outstandingly demanding, unpleasant or important nature.
Unfortunately this is not used nearly as much as it could be for a number of reasons. Firstly because line managers fail to submit the necessary recommendation for staff entitled to the award, and secondly, because any payments awarded under the scheme are charged to the appropriate Area / Departmental budget, any such recommendation fail at an early hurdle.
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Used to hate when old aunts came up to me after weddings and said "u r next" They stopped that when I did the same to them after funerals...
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Feetup
Wooden Top
Joined: 28 July 2010
Location: United Kingdom
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Posts: 26
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Posted: 28 July 2010 at 11:43am |
The SPP was not divisive in my force, it merely rewarded those who were prepared to work the front line 24/7, although admittedly it did include the community based officers.
There were exceptions made but in the main those who deserved it received it and it was fairly distributed.
Although now recently retired I will be sorry to see it go as it gave some well earned reward to those at the sharp end.
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999tommo
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Joined: 15 March 2006
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Posted: 28 July 2010 at 11:51am |
Originally posted by 30down92go
999 On the surface not a bad idea BUT!!!! What you are in fact suggesting is a reward system, okay on the surface but there will ALWAYS be that one officer who needs extra cash who may do something above and beyond stupid in an attempt to earn that extra money. In other words it can become a reward for stupidity, enticing that officer to possibly put his and other peoples lives in extra danger.
I agree I suppose, although I did not intend to create a stupidity award, but an award for skill and tenacity, good Police work, or dealing with a particularly stressful situation. My idea is not fool-proof, but I feel it is better than just rewarding officers with a particular notch on their belt, when they may otherwise be rubbish cops. I know of officers who have obtained particular skills with the sole intention of getting the SPP. That is clearly wrong.
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Tommo.....
Traffic Rat and proud to be so.... Officially I'm RED
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999tommo
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Posted: 28 July 2010 at 11:54am |
Originally posted by Backlash
Police Regulations 2003, Annex U (Paragraph 8, Bonus Payments) provides for a separate scheme for bonus payments of between £50 and £500 per head to recognise occasional work of an outstandingly demanding, unpleasant or important nature.
Unfortunately this is not used nearly as much as it could be for a number of reasons. Firstly because line managers fail to submit the necessary recommendation for staff entitled to the award, and secondly, because any payments awarded under the scheme are charged to the appropriate Area / Departmental budget, any such recommendation fail at an early hurdle.
I know about this payment, which we always referred to as 'dirty money' as it was usually paid out for handling decomposed bodies, or picking up the bits from a train v pedestrian incident. In my experience, the £50 was the normal payout and whilst every little helps, it does not really compensate an officer for something which traumatise them for a long time.
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Tommo.....
Traffic Rat and proud to be so.... Officially I'm RED
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999tommo
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Posted: 28 July 2010 at 12:01pm |
Originally posted by FeetupThe SPP was not divisive in my force, it merely rewarded those who were prepared to work the front line 24/7, although admittedly it did include the community based officers.
There were exceptions made but in the main those who deserved it received it and it was fairly distributed.
Although now recently retired I will be sorry to see it go as it gave some well earned reward to those at the sharp end.
The main problem with the SPP scheme is that the Chief Constables basically decided how the money was divided. So in some forces like yours, all 24/7 cops got the money. In others like mine, people in roles like Negotiators, AFOs and Tac Advisors got the money and 24/7 cops didn't. I'm not knocking any particular role, as everyone will suggest that their role is the most derseving of an extra payment, but by singling out a role rather than an act, the system is inherantly unfair. If it gets scrapped, I won't miss it because I don't get it, despite dealing with multiple fatal accidents, picking up bits and bobs of bodies etc, which is why I feel it should be based on work done not potentially done. My role is relatively easy in the main, so I wouldn't expect a payment, but then so are most other roles on a day to day basis and it is only when the brown stuff hits the fan that the paymet becomes relevant.
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Tommo.....
Traffic Rat and proud to be so.... Officially I'm RED
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tee5
Class I (Fighter Command)
Joined: 27 October 2005
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Posted: 28 July 2010 at 10:24pm |
Originally posted by Stan StillTee - I don't know what it's like where you are, but trying to get off response is now like trying to get a new pair of gloves out of Stores. You can keep asking, but you won't get.
I hope not- I'm looking to specialise soon!
Busting a gut? Then slow down. Nothing, but nothing, is worth racing to (apart from an assistance shout - even then, you can't help your mates if you're wrapped round a tree!)
Problem is, our LPU is considered one of (if not the) busiest in the force. It is literally job to job with no respite. Only a third of the team appear to do any work - the other two thirds - made up of students and officers with around 2 yrs in - do bugger all. They look to bat jobs before they've even got to them, instead of thinking about providing a quality service. They "fly under the radar" at all times, whilst the old sweats on the team shout up for jobs and are the ones often kept on duty whilst the aforementioned 'sprogs' go home on time!. Supervision don't appear to be bothered about it either, preferring to give the good jobs to the young ones, whilst posting us old sweats with driving grades to the hospital, a constant watch, handover or a scene. I wouldn't mind, but I've been there done that, got the T shirt when I was a probationer!
Not getting refs? Is that because the CMC aren't managing their queue properly? I think you'll find everyone in there gets a break! Who serves who?
The controllers haven't got a clue who is where. They very quickly lose the plot every day. I kid you not. No-one is ever told to grab refs and for those that shout up asking, they are told to stand by, then given a routine job that is 3 days old, and must be done there and then.
Never finishing on time? Claim it - every minute of it.
I do! At the last count, our LPU was running at £75k in O/T since April 6th!
Stressed out? You can only do one job at a time. Do it properly, do it efficiently and be content that you've given that person the best possible service.
They don't see it like that in the control room. They are constantly splitting cars up and leaving officers alone at jobs. Dangerous IMO.
Indigestion? Stop eating kebabs?
Don't touch em!
The worst is yet to come with Paragon - you ain't seen nothing yet!
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Stan Still
Moderator Group
Crown Skivvie
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Posted: 28 July 2010 at 11:18pm |
Originally posted by tee5
Problem is, our LPU is considered one of (if not the) busiest in the force. It is literally job to job with no respite. Only a third of the team appear to do any work - the other two thirds - made up of students and officers with around 2 yrs in - do bugger all. They look to bat jobs before they've even got to them, instead of thinking about providing a quality service. They "fly under the radar" at all times, whilst the old sweats on the team shout up for jobs and are the ones often kept on duty whilst the aforementioned 'sprogs' go home on time!. Supervision don't appear to be bothered about it either
The sad thing about this is that I know you are spot on!
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OnlySoMuch
Class I (Fighter Command)
Joined: 17 December 2007
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Posted: 29 July 2010 at 12:44am |
Our force have switched on the GPS monitoring now and whilst it has some teething problems it is already quite good and will (and has) catch out the lazy b***ards who let everyone else take the load.
I saw a demo and it was great - little coloured icons where you/your car is.
Some will say its big brother and they will be watching etc etc but i don't see a problem, everyone (and i include controllers) know which pile most officers go into - workers/shirkers and than less they are watching you because you fall into the latter they won;t have the time or interest to keep checking, what it does mean though is they can send the nearest unit to a job and more importantly if you are in the cr*p but don't know where you are - they will (also if you have a decamp and haven't seen a street sign - we've all been there)
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Stop the world, i want to get off!
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Penbwlch
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Posted: 29 July 2010 at 7:40am |
Originally posted by tee5Problem is, our LPU is considered one of (if not the) busiest in the force. It is literally job to job with no respite. Only a third of the team appear to do any work - the other two thirds - made up of students and officers with around 2 yrs in - do bugger all. They look to bat jobs before they've even got to them, instead of thinking about providing a quality service. They "fly under the radar" at all times, whilst the old sweats on the team shout up for jobs and are the ones often kept on duty whilst the aforementioned 'sprogs' go home on time!. Supervision don't appear to be bothered about it either, preferring to give the good jobs to the young ones, whilst posting us old sweats with driving grades to the hospital, a constant watch, handover or a scene. I wouldn't mind, but I've been there done that, got the T shirt when I was a probationer!
It seems some things can be universal, this used to happen in the Division I was on, in the Met, in the early 1970s. Don't worry about it. In the end, those seeking to duck jobs spend more time and effort doing the ducking than if they just got on with it. They also lose out in the end. I remember one really filthy winter night when the weather became policeman; everything went dead. All those duckers and divers got wet and very cold as they had no respite from the weather (we used to walk in those days). Me? I was sat in the local hospital with the nurses, eating the tea and sandwiches they provided. You see, I always took the hospital messages and was forever helping them out. 
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tee5
Class I (Fighter Command)
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Posted: 29 July 2010 at 11:00am |
Originally posted by Penbwlch(we used to walk in those days)
Walk?? God forbid these students should use their legs!! On a late shift, they're standing outside waiting for cars to come in from earlies so that they can grab the keys and drive off. Often the new Astras as well. Best of it is, they've normally phoned their mate on earlies and asked if they've got a vehicle and to give it to them when they return!
The rest of us are sat upstairs waiting for cars and all thats left are the old vehicles with 100,00 miles on them. Is anything being done? No!
If I'd have driven off in a "new sector" car (as we used to call them), when I was new, I'd have had a slap!
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Penbwlch
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Posted: 29 July 2010 at 11:10am |
Originally posted by tee5Walk?? God forbid these students should use their legs!! On a late shift, they're standing outside waiting for cars to come in from earlies so that they can grab the keys and drive off. Often the new Astras as well. Best of it is, they've normally phoned their mate on earlies and asked if they've got a vehicle and to give it to them when they return!
The rest of us are sat upstairs waiting for cars and all thats left are the old vehicles with 100,00 miles on them. Is anything being done? No!
If I'd have driven off in a "new sector" car (as we used to call them), when I was new, I'd have had a slap! So, what's stopping you from giving them a "slap"? Not a physical slap but a verbal one. How about this?:- When you get your car, examine it thoroughly and put it sick. Every time there is a car available, find something wrong with it (shouldn't be hard with an old car). Then declare yourself vehicle-less and go out and walk. When you are called for an awkward job, the sort they don't like, tell control that although you would love to take the job, you are on foot and would they please give it to a unit that has a vehicle. A couple of days of that should give you the choice of the vehicles.
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I used to be conceited. Now I'm Perfect
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30down92go
Barrack Room Lawyer
Joined: 09 November 2006
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Posted: 29 July 2010 at 12:11pm |
It's worked before and should work again
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I may be an ex copper, but I'm still a serving cynic
Nostalgia is not what it used to be
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Wee Man
Garage Sergeant
Joined: 18 November 2006
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: 29 July 2010 at 5:33pm |
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Before I did my driving course I used to love being told to go for a walk when I was a probie. The skipper used to use it as a minor telling off if I'd lost some paperwork but I soon learned that if you're walking around you get sent to far less crappy jobs ("Yep, I can attend, ETA four hours walk from here"), speak to far more nice people who want to say how good it is to see you on foot and turn over lots more wrong uns who don't expect you to be on foot.
Lots of searches, plenty of arrests (and even some process) and a lot less of the dross. I still miss it now.
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Peace And Love
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OnlySoMuch
Class I (Fighter Command)
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Posted: 29 July 2010 at 10:17pm |
Originally posted by tee5
Originally posted by Penbwlch(we used to walk in those days)
Walk?? God forbid these students should use their legs!! On a late shift, they're standing outside waiting for cars to come in from earlies so that they can grab the keys and drive off. Often the new Astras as well. Best of it is, they've normally phoned their mate on earlies and asked if they've got a vehicle and to give it to them when they return!
The rest of us are sat upstairs waiting for cars and all thats left are the old vehicles with 100,00 miles on them. Is anything being done? No!
If I'd have driven off in a "new sector" car (as we used to call them), when I was new, I'd have had a slap!
That's down to the supervision, simple as that. When i did acting for a while post specialisation i always knew what cars were available and being used by the previous shift and i allocated them, a pecking order existed and was driving auth/experience related
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Stop the world, i want to get off!
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30down92go
Barrack Room Lawyer
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 6:36am |
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Of course WM you missed out the really important bit. How can you get a great tea-hole driving passed at 30mph. Once they've seen you there a couple of times the trust builds and the gossip turns to Intel....
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I may be an ex copper, but I'm still a serving cynic
Nostalgia is not what it used to be
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tee5
Class I (Fighter Command)
Joined: 27 October 2005
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 8:20pm |
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Back to SPP- West Mids have announced that this years SPP will be halved. They've got rid of Always There, which was nice if you never had time off. Now this- I might have to break with tradition and start taking time off sick with the rest of em.
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Backlash
Garage Sergeant
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 8:42pm |
Originally posted by tee5
Now this- I might have to break with tradition and start taking time off sick with the rest of em.
I agree. I cannot abide sickies. I haven't had a day off sick since I joined in the late 80's...
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Used to hate when old aunts came up to me after weddings and said "u r next" They stopped that when I did the same to them after funerals...
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IveToldYouOnce
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Posted: 31 July 2010 at 10:39am |
Originally posted by tee5
Back to SPP- West Mids have announced that this years SPP will be halved. They've got rid of Always There, which was nice if you never had time off. Now this- I might have to break with tradition and start taking time off sick with the rest of em. I think that this will happen. All that happens with things like "Always There" and SPP being linked to not taking days off sick is that people who are sick just come into work and give it to everybody else, or spend their shifts feeling like crap and not working like they ought to be able to. I've taken 'short notice' annual leave days instead of having a day of sick so that my SPP wasn't affected...............and I'm not the only one - a mate of mine called in and got me to check the number of days off sick he'd taken already, to see whether he could actually stay at home and be sick, or whether he'd have to arrange to lose a days annual leave instead.
Edited by IveToldYouOnce - 31 July 2010 at 10:41am
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