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oldcopper
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Quote oldcopper Replybullet Topic: `SPECIAL' DCC - STAFFORDSHIRE POLICE
    Posted: 09 March 2010 at 4:01pm
I note Staffordshire Police are appointing a member of their Special Constabulary to the rank of Deputy Chief Constable within the `Specials,' with a view to encouraging potential recruits to sign up in the hope they may attain high Special Constabulary rank.
 
Do those of you still serving ever think that `something' is going on with regard to all this recruting of Special Constables (and PCSOs) around the Forces?  Are any of you a bit concerned about where this may lead?   
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Quote BIkerider Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2010 at 4:32pm
Whilst it doesn't affect me directly I am not so sure that this is a terribly good idea. A 'Special' in what is after all an ACPO rank could have far reaching connotations and it may well be a mistake too far. 
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Quote sykes Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2010 at 4:37pm

THere concerns in our force for a number of reasons, chief decided apart from ARV all RPU officers to be taser trained, he is now reducing number of RPU officer posts and instead recruitng 15 RPU specials not only are they taking over from spcialiist and regular officers they are to be traine din issue of Sect 165 notices something the chief will not allow response officer to issue.

We have a couple traqined as spotter for football matches etc all appears to be creepin ginto what i would expect regulars to undertake an dnothing i have seen suggests anything other than a cheap alternative to regular officers, we as a force are still obsessed with targets and recording crime so by getting more specials out with the PCSO's the public think they are getting the same level of service but is costing a fraction of the price.
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oldcopper
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Quote oldcopper Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2010 at 5:03pm
[QUOTE=sykes]

THere concerns in our force for a number of reasons, chief decided apart from ARV all RPU officers to be taser trained, he is now reducing number of RPU officer posts and instead recruitng 15 RPU specials not only are they taking over from spcialiist and regular officers they are to be traine din issue of Sect 165 notices something the chief will not allow response officer to issue.

All of this gives cause for concern. Do the Specials turn out when they like or when they are instructed? 
We have a couple traqined as spotter for football matches etc all appears to be creepin ginto what i would expect regulars to undertake an dnothing i have seen suggests anything other than a cheap alternative to regular officers, we as a force are still obsessed with targets and recording crime so by getting more specials out with the PCSO's the public think they are getting the same level of service but is costing a fraction of the price.
There is little doubt this is all about `policing on the cheap' and I suspect the use of Specials will eventually be used to dilute Police pay and conditions in the not too distant future. 
As a MOP I would not have any confidence in the combination of a Special and a PCSO to deal with anything of importance.
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Quote sykes Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2010 at 5:14pm
Each force is different but specials due to other comitments pick and choose when they come on duty, most insist on going off on the time they state regardless of jobs coming in.
 
If any MOPS out htere want to be wooried have a scan over the police specials forum some interesting views and opinions from across various forces, with som especials openly stating they wont be affected by force cutbacks as they can do the job for nothing so foorces wont have ot pay for regular officers, other believe they are exempt all codes of conduct in the way they behave, these are the people who will patroling your steeets answering calls for service, attending serious incidents etc if thing continue.
I have always supported the special and will continue to do so however with this creeping re3sponsibilty comes a big risk
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Quote Maverick22 Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2010 at 5:28pm
They are usually known as Commandants in most forces.  I wonder who put this absurd proposal forward, some special with illusions of grandeur.

Edited by Maverick22 - 10 March 2010 at 7:46am
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Quote keithboy37 Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2010 at 5:30pm
This is a joke and the person who came up with this idea is obviously stupid. How can a special be a DCC. What critical incident training do they have, what experience do they have and why would you need a special as a DCC.
 
How do you address them. I recall that senior specials are not addressed as sir or ma'am, as they do not have an official rank higher than a PC.
 
This is just stupid and made up by a lunatic who clearly wants to progress further up the rank structure.
 
Specials have a role to play in policing, however DCC is not one of them.


Edited by keithboy37 - 09 March 2010 at 5:31pm
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Quote HMService Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2010 at 6:44pm
 
 
We refer to ours as "Platinum Commander". When I was uniform he loved strutting up and down outside the football matches we policed.
 
It was always amusing to see that strut divert in the opposite direction to anything griefy that we had to deal with. To be fair though when it's all kicking off does a special ACPO outrank a regular PC sorting something out? I think he didn't want to find out.
 
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Quote oldcopper Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2010 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by keithboy37

This is a joke and the person who came up with this idea is obviously stupid. How can a special be a DCC. What critical incident training do they have, what experience do they have and why would you need a special as a DCC.
I fail to see why there should be ANY ranks within the Special Constabulary. When I joined in the early 1960s the Specials in my Force (City of Glasgow) DID have a rank structure, with a Divisional Commandant  in charge of the Specials in each territorial division.  The regulars complained about this and the rank structure was abolished.
Around the same time the Specials began to cease wearing their `Special Constable' shoulder flashes, because this distinguished them from `real' Police, and those we Policed `took the mickey' out of them somewhat. The Chief Constable insisted that they continued to wear the shoulder flashes and most of them resigned. Those who remained had to content themselves with being constables. 
How do you address them. I recall that senior specials are not addressed as sir or ma'am, as they do not have an official rank higher than a PC.
Some of my erstwhile colleagues addressed them in rather robust terms and many just would not speak to them at all. 
This is just stupid and made up by a lunatic who clearly wants to progress further up the rank structure.
Seconded, and what an `interesting' of chap he must be.  
Specials have a role to play in policing, however DCC is not one of them.
I concur, but it would be interesting to find out which senior officer in the regulars thought up this idea.
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Quote oldcopper Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2010 at 7:11pm
[QUOTE=HMService]
 
 
We refer to ours as "Platinum Commander". When I was uniform he loved strutting up and down outside the football matches we policed.
 
It was always amusing to see that strut divert in the opposite direction to anything griefy that we had to deal with. To be fair though when it's all kicking off does a special ACPO outrank a regular PC sorting something out? I think he didn't want to find out.
Do members of the public realise he is a `Special' and not a regular senior Police Officer?  I hope they still have to wear `Special Constable'  shoulder flashes to distinguish them from the regulars.   
HMSQUOTE]
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Quote MadKev Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2010 at 11:00pm
Is this a shot across the bows to test reactions prior to the Olympics?
 
Albeit at least PCSO's are paid a wage, Specials are not, and I hear low-quality murmurings about massive expansion of the Specials in time for 2012.
 
I had a lot of time for the Specials who were already on one career path but were drawn to Policing, what better way to decide to make the jump, particularly for those whose income would fall.  There were others, wrong 'uns: - when they got out of the car, I just used to drive away and not come back.
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Quote OldAfricaHand Replybullet Posted: 10 March 2010 at 5:37am
Originally posted by Maverick22

They are usually known as Commandants in most forces.  I wonder who put this absurd proposal forward, some special with illusions of granduer.
                 
Sadly, Mav', quite a few senior Specials have delusions of grandeur.
 
As a Special for 27 years, I was never very comfortable having a supervisory rank that gave the impression I was in some way "superior" to PCs. When they replaced "rank" with "grade" it seemed a step in the right direction but, to be frank, I do not see why any structure is necessaru other than Constable. I say this because Specials must work under the supervision of Regular Police officers - whatever their rank - be it PC or above.
 
I was lucky, i worked in busy inner divisions where there was little time for anyone to worry about which blue uniform turned up to an urgent assistance shout. At Harrow Road in NW London, our little specials team of 8 worked bloody hard to gain trust and we got it an in return we respected the Regular guys and girls we worked with as being motivated and keen to deliver what the public needed - it was a good relationship but on other divisions there was acrimony - usually because the Specials didn't work and had their own supervisors who strutted about like gods - never a pretty sight.
 
We did have one chief commandant, Edgar Maybanks, who transformed the Met Specials - his position immediately before becoming Ch Commandant was Deputy Assistant Commissioner A (Operations) - he was well-liked and respected by all and brought the necessary regular leadership style to the specials. If Specials Supervisory ranks are needed, let them be regular officers "seconded" to the Specials - we used to have regular PSs & Inspectors as Liaison Officers - who effectively were our real supervisors!
 
A Specail DCC - not on at all! 
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Quote Dazbags Replybullet Posted: 10 March 2010 at 9:49am

Apologies for the long post but I hope to provide a little clarity. I am currently a Special Constable and as a previous poster said the format is different for each force although I understand that there are plans in progress to create greater uniformity throughout England and Wales in regards to Specials structure and especially training.

 

We had eight or nine Saturdays of training, mostly law and procedure related, e.g. theft, public order, basic traffic offences and lost/found property etc but also including a day on first aid. We finished off with a week to do comms and IT training and three days of Officer Safety Training. After training we have monthly training evening and one or two training weekends each year. Although the quality of the training is excellent it did surprise me as to how little we get compared to regular officers and PCSOs (especially considering the PCSO’s lack of powers). Being assigned a ‘tutor’ after training like the regulars do would have made sense to me.

 

We have exactly the same uniform and equipment as regular officers and exactly the same powers. PCs, PCSOs and SCs are all identified by a four digit collar number but start with a different number dependent on which of the three groups they fall into so a MOP would not generally be able to tell the difference between a PC and an SC but another officer would. When we finish training we are generally assigned to an NPT although some officers are purely response and I know of one who is permanently attached to an RPU. We don’t have Special ranks (and certainly not a DCC), but we do have grades. We have Section Officers (SOs) who are generally responsible for the Specials attached to an NPT and we have one or two Area Officers (AOs) or each of the three BCUs in our force. Then there is the Commandant, responsible to the Chief Officers for all the Specials in the force. The AOs organise training and staffing of major events, we don’t call them sir/ma’am etc but generally show them some respect. Even if an event is purely staffed by Specials, overseen by an AO there will still be a Regular Sgt or Insp with overall operational responsibility.

 

After training a special cannot patrol alone until they have been ‘signed off’ for independent patrol by completing a PAC. Until then they must accompany a Special who has been signed off or a PC or PCSO. Generally I would work from my NPT on neighbourhood foot patrols, usually accompanying my Section Officer although I can pick and choose my own tours of duty. I also can approach the Duty Sergeant and request to accompany a response officer, which they generally like because it means that they can attend incidents they have to be ‘double crewed’. Often we will be asked to take part in policing large events or operations, these are known about in advance and it is considered bad practice to volunteer and then not show up for duty. In our NPT the Section Officer liaises with the regular team and works out the priorities for us so we have made a concerted effort to patrol on Friday nights to combat anti-social behaviour. On the last Friday I was out there were five Specials and one PCSO, if no specials volunteered that night, there would be only the PCSO. We have received positive feedback from our neighbourhood who are comforted by the police presence and see groups being moved on and alcohol being confiscated.

 

I am only a Special because my Regular application has been delayed. If I wasn’t hell-bent on becoming a Regular and didn’t think all experience is good experience I doubt I would find the time to be a Special. I do admire those who volunteer for purely selfless motives and I do think that they provide a useful addition to the ‘Police family’.  
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Quote oldcopper Replybullet Posted: 10 March 2010 at 10:42am
Originally posted by Dazbags

Apologies for the long post but I hope to provide a little clarity. I am currently a Special Constable and as a previous poster said the format is different for each force although I understand that there are plans in progress to create greater uniformity throughout England and Wales in regards to Specials structure and especially training.

 

We had eight or nine Saturdays of training, mostly law and procedure related, e.g. theft, public order, basic traffic offences and lost/found property etc but also including a day on first aid. We finished off with a week to do comms and IT training and three days of Officer Safety Training. After training we have monthly training evening and one or two training weekends each year. Although the quality of the training is excellent it did surprise me as to how little we get compared to regular officers and PCSOs (especially considering the PCSO’s lack of powers). Being assigned a ‘tutor’ after training like the regulars do would have made sense to me.

I hope there is some kind of  formal examination at the end of this period of instruction, but somehow I doubt if there is.

We have exactly the same uniform and equipment as regular officers and exactly the same powers. PCs, PCSOs and SCs are all identified by a four digit collar number but start with a different number dependent on which of the three groups they fall into so a MOP would not generally be able to tell the difference between a PC and an SC but another officer would. When we finish training we are generally assigned to an NPT although some officers are purely response and I know of one who is permanently attached to an RPU. We don’t have Special ranks (and certainly not a DCC), but we do have grades. We have Section Officers (SOs) who are generally responsible for the Specials attached to an NPT and we have one or two Area Officers (AOs) or each of the three BCUs in our force. Then there is the Commandant, responsible to the Chief Officers for all the Specials in the force. The AOs organise training and staffing of major events, we don’t call them sir/ma’am etc but generally show them some respect. Even if an event is purely staffed by Specials, overseen by an AO there will still be a Regular Sgt or Insp with overall operational responsibility.

I am sorry to see that the `Special Constable' shoulder flash and the `SC' with the numerals appear to have been dispensed with. It seems to me that everything is being done to make `Specials' indistinguishable from the Regulars, so why they don't they work night shift, or am I wrong ?  I know most `Specials' have other employment which might make this difficult but many could do a night shift ` Saturday/Sunday.'

 After training a special cannot patrol alone until they have been ‘signed off’ for independent patrol by completing a PAC. Until then they must accompany a Special who has been signed off or a PC or PCSO. Generally I would work from my NPT on neighbourhood foot patrols, usually accompanying my Section Officer although I can pick and choose my own tours of duty. I also can approach the Duty Sergeant and request to accompany a response officer, which they generally like because it means that they can attend incidents they have to be ‘double crewed’. Often we will be asked to take part in policing large events or operations, these are known about in advance and it is considered bad practice to volunteer and then not show up for duty. In our NPT the Section Officer liaises with the regular team and works out the priorities for us so we have made a concerted effort to patrol on Friday nights to combat anti-social behaviour. On the last Friday I was out there were five Specials and one PCSO, if no specials volunteered that night, there would be only the PCSO. We have received positive feedback from our neighbourhood who are comforted by the police presence and see groups being moved on and alcohol being confiscated.

I see no need for ANY type of rank or `grade' in the Special Constabulary.

You say that on the last Friday you did duty, were it not for the presence of you and your fellow Specials, there would only have been a PCSO patrolling the area. Surely, if no Specials were available the regular supervisors would have provided cover by regular officers from elsewhere or  brought some of them out on overtime? Or is it now the case that the public are virtually being abandoned by the Police who are willing to leave areas patrolled only by PCSOs?    
I am only a Special because my Regular application has been delayed. If I wasn’t hell-bent on becoming a Regular and didn’t think all experience is good experience I doubt I would find the time to be a Special. I do admire those who volunteer for purely selfless motives and I do think that they provide a useful addition to the ‘Police family’. 
The the motivation for many to become `Specials' is probably admirable and, in the case of someone who wishes to become a Regular, understandable. However, I am increasingly convinced that the use of `Specials' is intended to undermine the pay and conditions of  members of the Regular Force. I feel sorry for today's Regulars and ashamed that those of ACPO and supervisory rank who should be looking out for their `troops' are complicit in this chicanery.      
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Quote Dazbags Replybullet Posted: 10 March 2010 at 11:16am
Originally posted by oldcopper

I hope there is some kind of  formal examination at the end of this period of instruction, but somehow I doubt if there is.

There is an examination at the end of training but I wouldn't describe it as 'formal'.

I am sorry to see that the `Special Constable' shoulder flash and the `SC' with the numerals appear to have been dispensed with. It seems to me that everything is being done to make `Specials' indistinguishable from the Regulars, so why they don't they work night shift, or am I wrong ?  I know most `Specials' have other employment which might make this difficult but many could do a night shift ` Saturday/Sunday.'

We can work whatever hours suit, I and many others often work until 3 or 4 in the morning and stay beyond our duty time if necessary. During the flood at Cockermouth many Specials finished their day job and then went to Cokermouth to relieve Regular Officers and worked overnight.
I see no need for ANY type of rank or `grade' in the Special Constabulary.
As far as I can see the grades we use are to have people designated for certain responsibilities and are mostly for administrative purposes.
You say that on the last Friday you did duty, were it not for the presence of you and your fellow Specials, there would only have been a PCSO patrolling the area. Surely, if no Specials were available the regular supervisors would have provided cover by regular officers from elsewhere or  brought some of them out on overtime? Or is it now the case that the public are virtually being abandoned by the Police who are willing to leave areas patrolled only by PCSOs?    
The reason we were out is because there were no regulars on foot patrol. There are response vehicles 'firefighting' and dealing with the city centre disorder. My understanding is that if there were an incident reported it would be dealt with my a response vehicle but this does not provide the reassuring police presence that communities have asked for.
The the motivation for many to become `Specials' is probably admirable and, in the case of someone who wishes to become a Regular, understandable. However, I am increasingly convinced that the use of `Specials' is intended to undermine the pay and conditions of  members of the Regular Force. I feel sorry for today's Regulars and ashamed that those of ACPO and supervisory rank who should be looking out for their `troops' are complicit in this chicanery.    
It seems to me that forces are under pressure to improve policing while losing funding. After a smaller initial outlay for training and equipment using Specials is a cost effective way to put 'bobbies on the beat' instead of standing firm and saying that it can't be done. Volunteers are valued in many walks of life but the increasing reliance on unpaid volunteers who cannot be compelled to turn out for duty is, in my view, not a sustainable solution and merely papers over the cracks.  My view has and continues to be that Specials are a valuable addition to the policing family but cannot and should not replace Regular police officers.
  
[/QUOTE]

Edited by Dazbags - 10 March 2010 at 11:17am
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Quote oldcopper Replybullet Posted: 10 March 2010 at 9:42pm
Dazbags
Many thanks for you vandid and informative reply to my post.
I think the deployment of Specials to the Cockermouth flooding was appropriate and believe that is one of the types of situation in which they should be used. 
Your last 2 paragraphs indicate that there is substance in my suspicions that Specials are part of a move to undermine gthe pay/conditions/pensions of serving members of the Regular Force.
Anyway, best of luck in your quest to become a member of the regular Force and I hope you enjoy your Police career, 
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Quote Dazbags Replybullet Posted: 11 March 2010 at 9:22am
Thanks Oldcopper.
 
For anybody who is interested in the work of the Specials here is a link to a local newspaper article describing what they did in Cockermouth:http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/cumbria_s_specials_nominated_for_flood_heroes_award_1_664374?referrerPath=home
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Quote OldAfricaHand Replybullet Posted: 11 March 2010 at 11:56am
Originally posted by Dazbags

Thanks Oldcopper.
 
For anybody who is interested in the work of the Specials here is a link to a local newspaper article describing what they did in Cockermouth:http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/cumbria_s_specials_nominated_for_flood_heroes_award_1_664374?referrerPath=home
                
It is worth remembering that the situation in Cumbria is precisely what the Special Constabulary is intended for - use in emergencies. The normal day-to-day deployment is designed really to give Specials the experience to enable them to operate effectively when emergencies arise and when Regular resources are stretched even thinner than usual. I can recall many times when my team responded in a similar fashion - Notting Hill Carnival 1976, Broadwater Farm riots, the Harrods bombing, the Balcombe Street seige.
 
In some ways, the Specials are another representation of the British volunteer spirit - the TA, RNR and RAFVR/RAuxAF. Volunteers have contributed a lot to our way of life - the majority of pilots in the Battle of Britain were RAuxAF or RAFVR and there are now reservists on the front-line in Afghanistan. St Jonh Ambulance and Red Cross provide immediate assistance at many incidents, a lot of UK is covered by Retained Firefighters and, last but by no means least, the RNLI are purely volunteers who put their lives on the line very often to rescue people in distress.
 
I do understand the peculiarities of policing but as long as Specials are properly trained, deployed and supervised, they do have a role to play - all the more so these days as it seems to be a route into the Regular Force.
 


Edited by OldAfricaHand - 11 March 2010 at 11:59am
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